How Bill Clinton's Lies fueled the 90's Economy

There is currently an abomination of a diary up on the rec list. Not so much because it quotes gov't sources, as the fact that the gov't sources themselves cannot be trusted.  That is a travesty that has been ongoing since the Reagan administration.

Do I put the blame squarely on Bill? Yes, to the extent he deserves it. Together with Greenspan, he came up with unique and innovative ways to distort and mislead with gov't statistics.

This is not to say that the Republicans did not do the same thing -- they did. In fact, GWB's changes were so egregious that they were actually denied.

Folks who know me around here know that I've got no big beef with the Big Dog, but I do like the smell of honesty. And that's why I'm here, all frizzed up and ready to talk. So, join me.

Well, you might be asking, so what? he lied about inflation? What the hell does that mean, in real dimes and cents?

What it means is lower pay raises for everyone (many companies base their raises on inflation statistics)

What it means is millions less in gov't payouts to Medicare, Social Security, government workers.

Have you gotten the picture yet?

Bill Clinton's 'surplus' was stealing from the poor. Well, not entirely, to be fair. But there was certainly a component of "the gov't takes your money, and won't give it back when they said they would, how they said they would"

This is why people die because their utilities are shut off because they can't afford them (in clear violation of laws. collection agencies are not to be trusted, particularly when dealing with disadvantaged people).

Economist John Williams estimates that social security payments are half of what they should be, if the data was reported accurately. And we wonder why people live in poverty, unable to afford giving grandkids presents.

Manipulations in the CPI (consumer price index) cause the inflation to be reported as up to 7% less than what should be reported. If you look at the M3 (which was discontinued, so that the government does not provide it anymore), you see that inflation is running pretty high. We're talking 10%, which isn't anything like Carter's admin, but it's a lot higher than the 3-4% that's being quoted.

Some believe that if the public learned the truth about inflation, there would be pressure to raise the interest rates -- to avoid giving companies FREE MONEY.

Today's Revised Source:
Inflation: The Big Lie



Display:


This diary is not intended (1.00 / 5)

to call out the diarist, but merely to provide the other side of the equation, and rant about misleading statistics.

I must confess, if the diarist had not brushed me off, I might not have written such an extensive response.

Toodles!


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:03:10 PM EST

Re: This diary is not intended (2.00 / 4)

This is got to be biggest piece of horse shit , ill informed , got jack but mumbo jumbo wanna be numbers that could be altered to show that your families lineage had tranny's in it if you give some nut bag enough of time to write his eloquent interpretation.

Now I could easily educate/school you on Bill Clintons economic successes which even republicans cite... but I enjoyed my 1st response too much and so I will let it stand.

would you like some fries w/ that?


He was warmly received by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who called him "a leader that God has blessed us with at this time."
by roxfoxy on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 04:57:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

that is the sound of one hand clapping (none / 0)

mojoed for good fleer!


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 05:02:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hilarious (2.00 / 3)

WND as a source for this. Now THIS is a true troll diary.


by tarheel74 on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:11:25 PM EST

drop me a better source and I'll use it (none / 0)

;-) The whole thing has been common knowledge for so long that this was the first thing I googled.

(I should, as people keep telling me, be more careful about who i cite)


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:17:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Fixed (none / 0)

with a not terribly political website, instead.


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:25:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

TROLL DIARY (2.00 / 2)

admins:PLEASE DELETE THIS TROLL DIARY.


by Lakrosse on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:22:15 PM EST

why is this a troll diary? (none / 0)

I'm pointing out some shitty stuff that Greenspan did...

If you think the inflation right now is 3-4%, I've got some nice Florida real estate I'd like to sell you (If you don't get the thrust of that joke, I'm sorry, but have you been paying attention?)


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:24:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: why is this a troll diary? (none / 0)

the economy went bad under BUSH.


by Lakrosse on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:31:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Can you answer me why? (none / 0)

There's a pretty good argument that the first bush recession was caused by the dotcom bust, which rests on Greenspan's later tenure in the Clinton administration.

As other people have pointed out, most presidents inherit an economy, and create one for their successor. Bush presents an exception to this, mostly in that he broke most of the rules on what a president can and cannot change.


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:35:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can you answer me why? (2.00 / 1)

If you want to badmouth a Democratic President, go to Das Freirepublikanishe


by Lakrosse on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:48:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Your Polish pride is showing, dear (none / 0)

The highest form of patriotism is dissent.

When you can't find a problem with your government, you should be worried!

(the reference to polish pride is not intended to impugn anyone of Polish descent, imnso, russia has tended to be more guilty of the whole thing. only in russia could communists be conservative!)


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:51:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can you answer me why? (2.00 / 1)

Holy crapola, FOR DAYS the Mydd Clinton supporters have been wailing that it's their god-giving free-speech rights to rip Obama in diary after diary?

But Bill Clinton, can't criticise him?

I may point out, Lakrosse, your outrage is rather poltician selective?


My mom believed in Jesus, the Pope and FDR..... Just not necessarily in that order.
by WashStateBlue on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 04:29:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can you answer me why? (1.00 / 1)

He is the only two term Democrat since FDR. He gained us states like NJ, PA, NH, CA, MI, IL, VT, CT, ME, and MD that Democratic Presidential candidates always used to lose. Therefore, he deserves only the utmost honor.


by Lakrosse on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 04:50:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

so it's verboten to discuss lies he perpetrated (none / 0)

on innocent civilians?


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 05:03:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: so it's verboten to discuss lies he perpetrate (none / 0)

he never lied about anything other than Monica, which he didn't even really lie about.


by Lakrosse on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 05:59:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: why is this a troll diary? (none / 0)

exactly.

Why is this a troll diary, if Nancy's diary was not?

She dished Obama, and the Obama supporters?

She can have an opinion, but RisingTide can't?

Haven't we been Inundated with "Obama has turned to the right" diaries for days?

But, we can't criticize Bill Clinon?


My mom believed in Jesus, the Pope and FDR..... Just not necessarily in that order.
by WashStateBlue on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 04:26:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How Bill Clinton's Lies fueled the 90's Econom (2.00 / 1)

GMAFB - next we are going to have a diary explaining why the president doesn't effect the economy anyway.


by jrsygrl on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:40:42 PM EST

Re: How Bill Clinton's Lies fueled (2.00 / 5)

I'm an economist, the current economic downtown is mostly due to:
a) Unregulated sub-prime lending rules.
b) Causing housing crisis.
c) Causing securities held by banks to lose value - hence banks losing money
d) This means banks stop lending/borrowing money/securities to each other giving lack of liquidty.

This has barely nothing to do with Bill Clinton - sub-prime lending only really took off recently! The poor regulation is due to Bush also.

Secondly oil-prices are unstable due to Iraq/Iran pressures and general demand incrases from China and India.

So stop insulting the intelligence of readers!


by Jaz on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:41:39 PM EST

oh, I do know that! (none / 0)

What do you think caused Bush's first recession?

I'm not trying to point fingers at Clinton, because a lot of people have done wrong. I'm more annoyed by the fact that I can't trust anything cited from the gov't anymore.

I see indications that oil prices are being deliberately held down by refineries (at the same time that tankers are slowboating it to harbor)...


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:48:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: oh, I do know that! (2.00 / 2)

The first Bush recession was due to the normal business cycle. The budget surplus was also in ruins and so fiscal (as well as monetary) was too tight causing a harsh(er) recession.

Also the dot-com bust which was pretty much investors going crazy stopped.

Figures by the government are usually manipulated and have been for years and years. But the CPI is a world recognised figure of core inflation!

There are other measures of inflation in the USA, which also including housing costs, but the fed uses CPI, so does the European Central Bank.

The higher inflation now is due to higher oil --> transport --> wage-price spiral. Another theory is that productivity increases from "computing" is beginning to fade.

Inflation is still pretty low in historic terms, I find people overreacting pretty badly, the banking system is not in good shape.


by Jaz on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:56:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

would you blame the dotcom bust on (none / 0)

Greenspan's free money?

So everyone uses CPI? Do they all use the adjustments Greenspan et alia put in?

I'm sure I've heard Roubini talking about the possibility of global deflationary periods... ;-) So there's overreacting both ways.

Of course, if you listen to Roubini, we're about four steps away from a global economic crisis...

What do you think will happen when the derivatives market collapses?


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 04:02:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How Bill Clinton's Lies fueled (2.00 / 1)

a), b), c) and d) would not have been possible without the combination of deregulation and the tidal wave of liquidity that happened under Greenspan. That begat a series of bubbles including the NASDAQ bubble and the housing/credit bubble.

On inflation: leaving out house prices, education costs, health and medical care, energy, and food costs from the 'core' numbers guarantees they do not reflect the real inflation experienced by the majority of Americans. The Bank for International settlements in it's recent annual report suggested that so-called core inflation is not a proper measure of inflation.

However the title of this diary is misleading and abusive. Obama and Hillary are basically espousing Clintonian economics with some adjustments based on the experiences of the last 8 years. Neither suggested a return to New Deal tax or economic policies. Bill Clinton did ensure that the benefits of the expansion reached the middle class and the poor and the numbers show it while the debt was paid down. The Bush expansion went to the top 2% while debt exploded. But since Reagen we have been converting our income producing economy into a vast ponzi scheme. We are consuming more then we produce and have to face up to changing some fundamental flaws in economic policy.


by hankg on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 05:07:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

sherkle (none / 0)

if you want to blame Greenspan, blame greenspan. I blame clinton just like i blame GWB. Clinton could have stopped the Greenspan free money train.

From what I understand, the economics research has changed dramatically in the past eight years, and so have the policies. We're looking at a Carter/FDR presidency, not a Clinton one. At least that's how I see it.


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 05:13:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: sherkle (none / 0)

I think we will see some modest re-regulation. I think we will see labor get a seat at the trade negotiating table. I think those will be the adjustments from what Clinton did. Tax policy and oversight will return to something pretty close to what it was under Clinton.

I think Bernanke is trying to unwind the Greenspan put but it's is very dangerous as a wrong move could cause a deflationary collapse. We are in some deep doo doo.

Bill Clinton was working in a very narrow range during the ascendancy of a conservative wave with a Republican congress and he did not have the benefit of hindsight we have 8 years later. A lot of what looked like brilliant economic innovation in the credit and financial markets looks pretty stupid today. Considering the constraints he did amazingly well and the middle class did to during his 8 years.


by hankg on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 05:26:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

bernanke will watch (none / 0)

derivatives collapse, and will do nothing.

his only agenda appears to be keeping stock prices high (for future fall when the Democrat comes into office).

He does this at the cost of gas prices, I might hasten to add...


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 05:29:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: bernanke will watch (none / 0)

I don't think he is trying to be so clever. They are desperately trying to hold it all together. I don't think they give a crap about stock prices so long as they can keep the banking system from unraveling. I think they got a glimpse of the potential downside in January and they are scared sh*tless.


by hankg on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 06:12:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

this diary is.... (2.00 / 2)


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 05:13:17 PM EST

okay... that was pretty funny (none / 0)

but I bet it would be more funny if I could have listened to it!


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 05:15:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

yes - listening to it would be key. n/t (none / 0)


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 05:19:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: yes - listening to it would be key. n/t (2.00 / 1)

I love when you put this up.

What a mess!


Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!
by spacemanspiff on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 06:39:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nothing to get excited about here, folks. (2.00 / 2)

Just another LaRouchie eruption.


¡Si, soy PUMA!
by RonK Seattle on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 05:19:45 PM EST

If I had ever known anythign about Lyndon (none / 0)

other than a debate whistling show, this might make more sense.

anyone care to enlighten me? ;-)


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 05:31:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How Bill Clinton's Lies fueled the 90's (2.00 / 5)

Sounds like many people have come to hate the Clintons so badly they'll say or do anything to destroy their good works and contributions.

Perhaps the diarist here wasn't part of the workforce in the Clinton years.  Or wasn't of work age during the Reagan/Bush years to recognize the difference.

It became very popular under GW Bush to claim that Clinton's economy was only a bubble or a dream that never even occurred.  But the economic gains were very real.  More people were employed and earnings improved more than anytime in the history of America.

It's just wrong to diminish those gains.

Don't let your blind love for Obama and your hate for Hillary cloud a very successful Bill Clinton Democratic presidency.


by wblynch on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 05:22:12 PM EST

You, mister (1.00 / 1)

should remember to have your hiney examined the next time you are at the doctor! I am certain there is something wrong with your noggin, but perhaps I was looking at the wrong side...

To talk about well-cited distortions that continue to this day, is not to diminish anything, other than falsehood.

The difference between a Clinton hater and me is:

  1. I know people who have met the Clintons and vouch for them.
  2. I listen to kos, when he says how affable Clinton is in person.

I'm not saying that there wasn't prosperity during Clinton's years (although to truly prove that you'd have to show the consumer debt figures, which I may get a chance to pull tommorrow from bonddad).

If talking about LIES makes something diminish, maybe you ought to think about how much you put into it?

I do agree, as I have oft stated, that Bill Clinton was very successful. In this diary, I give the opposite perspective to a diary on the rec list.


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 05:27:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'll condense it for ya .... (2.00 / 2)

so folks don't have to read your little 'hit' diary too carefully.

Bill Clinton sucks.

Bill Clinton sucks BIGTIME!

I detest Bill Clinton, and cannot fathom that I could ever acknowledge any good form his terms in office.

There, ya happy now?

I'm freakin' SICK of all the trashing of the Clintons that goes on here, you are just as bad as any PUMA.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 09:55:29 PM EST

dude! I like Clinton (none / 0)

I'm told he's a nice guy who isn't too stingy with the candy -- unlike, say, Tipper (who a friend of mine maintains is the devil incarnate for refusing to give him candy on Halloween).

This diary was a counterpoint to a slavish lovefest on the rec list -- the author of which decided that I was ignorable because I refused to believe the gov't statistics, even after I posted links to the problematic statistics, and the scholarly research on the same.

What, I can't yell at Clinton because he's out of office? Sorry, but this soap box is mine, and I'm going to stand on it and give me a speech. I don't feel compelled, whenever I'm giving a speech, to lavish praise during my Jeremiad. So deal, sucker.

That doesn't change facts, however, and I do like the Big Dog.


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 09:49:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: dude! I like Clinton (2.00 / 2)

Sure you do.

Boy howdy, with folks who 'like' a person  in the manner you 'like' folks, I am sure glad you don't 'like' me!

I said it somewhere else, and I'll say it again: folks are trying to degrade Clinton's years as POTUS in order to set up a better climate so that Obama can be seen as 'the greatest ever'.

Even the GOP knew that they didn't have to destroy Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'.

We can have two also, you know, IF folks will allow it.  


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 10:01:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

If Obama's economy is a TENTH (none / 0)

as good as Clinton's, he will have pulled off a FUCKING MIRACLE! Bernanke's made sure that his powder is all wet, and we haven't seen such mad investment since the Roaring Twenties. There used to be rules about leverage, now you see twenty times leverage, and shit like that.

I will say, as I always do, that dissent is the highest form of patriotism.

I will not damn myself with Polish Pride that says that just because a Democrat did it, it was right. The deficit reduction that Clinton did, in hindsight, seems to not have had the effect he was going for. Life's a bitch that way, and I don't hold him accountable for other people's research.

I do hold him accountable for lying about inflation, but I also will lay our successful Afghanistan strike against the Taliban at his feet. Just to point out one or two things the man did wrong -- things that helped the economy and thus helped him stay in office, is not to denigrate his real accomplishments.


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 10:25:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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